Approved 8/26/03
LAW ENFORCEMENT
Members Present: Debbie DeLeon, Andy Schor, Mark Grebner, Mary Stid, Randy Schafer, Tom Minter and Board Chairperson Calvin Lynch
Members Absent: Randy Schafer and Thomas Minter
Others Present: John Neilsen, Diane Holman, Marc Thomas, Roger Fleming, Jim Woudenberg, Howard Rush, Greg Maas, Fred Hodgins, Beth Farley, Barbara Elder, Michelle Dimaria, Penelope Tsernoglou, Karen Hudson, Wendy Sorek, Sherri Cooper, Kristin Grannas, Eric Winkler, Judy Friedlis, Andre Friedlis, Marilyn Walsh, Lisa Diehl, Keith Crosslan, Jean Gaymer, Joshua Boehme, Chuck Springborn, Jacquelyn Winkler, Jet Higbie, Holly Strobel, Mary Potter, Judith Crites, Linda Stober, Susan Lorenzen, Stephen Heaven, Monica Terrell, Daria Schlega, Linda Ogston and others
The Public Hearing was called to order by Chairperson DeLeon at 7:43 p.m. in Conference Room A of the Human Services Building, 5303 S. Cedar, Lansing.
Chairperson DeLeon stated the purpose of this Public Hearing is to provide the public with factual information. The public will have their opportunity speak upon completion of the scheduled speakers.
Mr. Rush, Director, Unit for Laboratory Animal Medicine, University of Michigan, stated the University is in compliance with State and Federal regulations regarding animal research. Animal research is very valuable. Computer models cannot be used for all types of research. Only 500 universities have permission to conduct animal research. Of the 500, only 15 of the universities can conduct research on cats and dogs. Animal research benefits people. Mr. Rush encouraged the County to continue its current process regarding the sale of unadoptable dogs to Class B Dealers. He further explained the University treats the dogs with kindness and caring. The University's research program is accredited and it routinely meets or exceeds all regulations.
In response to Comm. Grebner, Mr. Rush stated the University only uses dogs which it purchases from Class B Dealers. However, in the 1960's and the 1970's, it obtained dogs from dog pounds. In response to Comm. Schor, Mr. Rush explained the University pays $200 to $400 for a conditioned, random source animal. Purpose-bread dogs are purchased for $600 to $1,000. The University has not taken animals from shelters in 30 years.
Mr. Woudenberg, R&R Research, stated R&R Research (R&R) is licensed by the United States Department of Agriculture. R&R is inspected four times per year. His facility sells dogs to hospitals and universities for research purposes. All dogs within R&R's facility can be returned to their original owners if possible. Mr. Woudenberg stated the many ways animal research has benefitted the public.
Mr. Woudenberg addressed questions from Comm. Schor. He stated he received his last violation five years ago for having an expired drug. Profit from the sale of the dogs varies. If the sales are timed right, his business would experience a 25% profit margin. However, he stated when dogs are held in his facility for long periods of time, the profit decreases.
Mr. Hodgins, Hodgins Kennel Inc., stated his business is also regulated by the United States Department of Agriculture and is inspected four times per year. Mr. Hodgins stated he had a copy of his inspection reports on hand if the Commissioners would like to review the documents.
In response to Comm. Grebner, Mr. Hodgins stated his business sells animals to St. Luke's Hospital, University of Michigan, Wayne State University, Henry Ford Hospital and Michigan State University. A majority of his business is selling the animals, not exchanging them. In response to Comm. Schor, Mr. Hodgins stated he received USDA violations in 1993. All the violations were resolved by being overturned in the Circuit Court. He further stated his business does not make a big profit from selling the animals for research.
Mr. Moss, Ingham County resident, stated he is a cancer survivor. He also informed the Committee that a specific poll indicated 60% of the public approve of humane animal research. Mr. Moss also spoke regarding the contributions animal research has made in medical advancements. Approximately 80 medications which are used on humans are also used on dogs and cats that were researched on animals.
Ms. VonGard was not present this evening.
a. Selling Animals to Research per Resolution #01-311
Mr. Fleming reviewed the County's policy regarding the sale of dogs to Class B Dealers. The sale of live animals for research purposes by Animal Control shall be limited to sales which advance one or more of the following purposes identified in Resolution #01-311:
Animal Control's first priority is to return dogs to their rightful owners. The second priority is adoption. The third priority is to match dogs who have a potential to serve society with Leaders for the Blind, Paws for Cause, etc. If an animal does not meet one of the first three priorities, it will be euthanized or will be made available to Class B Dealers as provided for in Resolution #01-311.
In response to Comm. Grebner, Mr. Fleming stated approximately 20 dogs are sold to research facilities per year. Comm. Schor stated some members of the Board are suggesting that an Animal Control Advisory Board or subcommittee be created to act as oversight for Animal Control. Mr. Fleming stated he would be more than willing to participate in this effort. However, Animal Control currently functions successfully without an Advisory Board. Comm. Grebner stated Debbie Stabenow formed an Animal Control Advisory Board approximately 20 years ago. This Board could be recreated. Mr. Fleming stated the public may need this type of Board.
Public Comment
Ms. Ogston stated she understands research has provided for medical advancements. She further stated Animal Control should keep animals for a longer period of time before selling them for research purposes. This longer period of time would provide more opportunities to reunite the animals with their owners. Ms. Ogston urged the Committee to reconsider selling animals to Class B Dealers or to have a longer holding period before selling animals for research.
Comm. Schor stated the current hold time for an animal without a microchip is seven days. Many dogs are held for longer periods of time. Ms. Ogston believes the hold time should be increased to 14 to 21 days during the summer months. Comm. Schor stated Animal Control is limited in space. He also stated he would prefer a 10-day hold before selling an animal for research purposes.
Comm. Thomas presented information to the Committee from Ms. Pierce of East Lansing for their review. He also distributed copies of an email he received from Amber Sitko of Montcalm County. Ms. Sitko's email contains specific constructive criticisms for improvements in Animal Control. It may be particularly important for a subcommittee to look at the information he has presented this evening. Comm. Thomas also stated he would like a response to Ms. Sitko's email.
Ms. Schlega informed the Committee that she conducted her own research on Class B Dealers. She spoke of the difficulties she experienced when trying to obtain specific information regarding Class B Dealers. This information should be made available locally. Ms. Schlega stated she did not trust the secretive nature of this issue.
Comm. Schor stated he obtained information from the USDA on the internet approximately three weeks ago. He hopes Ms. Schlega will continue her research on the internet as the information is available. Chairperson DeLeon informed the Committee and the public that representatives of the USDA were invited to attend this Public Hearing. The USDA did not respond to the invitation.
Ms. Terrell stated she did not feel as if she was placed first and at the forefront when she addressed the Commissioners at the previous Board meeting. Ms. Terrell represents an adopt-a-husky organization. She further spoke regarding the serious issues and problems concerning Animal Control and their policy of selling animals for research. Animal Control needs sensitivity training, improved customer service standards, an advisory council and a marketing program. Animal Control should be looked at very carefully.
Mr. Stephen Heaven, Capital Area Humane Society, believes the dogs Animal Control sells for research are adoptable dogs. The Humane Society is willing to take these unwanted animals to ensure they will not be sold for research. Mr. Heaven also addressed customer service issues and concerns regarding Animal Control Officers.
He informed the Committee about a book which contains violations of research organizations. If Comm. Shore has any questions about the violations of R&R Research and Hodgins Kennel Inc., Mr. Heaven stated they are contained in the book. Mr. Heaven stated the book is full of Class B Dealer violations.
Comm. Grebner stated Mr. Heaven should provide the book he is speaking about and that the Committee will expect that he characterized it correctly. Mr. Heaven stated the Committee could purchase the random source animals book.
Comm. Schor asked Mr. Heaven if Ingham County Animal Control is the only facility that takes in stray dogs. Mr. Heaven indicated that within Ingham County, Animal Control is the only facility that accepts strays. Mr. Heaven further stated the Humane Society has a $1.4 million budget. He did not wish to comment on the Society's position regarding the possible sale of the Ingham County Animal Shelter operations. Also in response to Comm. Schor, Mr. Heaven stated the Society could have taken all the dogs which were sold by the County for research purposes in the past year. He further explained that if the animals were deemed adoptable, the Humane Society would take them.
In response to Comm. Grebner, Mr. Heaven clarified his previous statement by explaining the Humane Society would visit the Animal Shelter every day and test each animal to determine if he/she is adoptable. If the animal is deemed adoptable, the Society will assume responsibility for the animal. Comm. Grebner explained that some of the animals in the Shelter are not adoptable due to behavioral issues.
In response to Chairperson DeLeon, Mr. Heaven stated the Humane Society is against the sale of animals to research facilities. He is not aware of the National Humane Society's position on this issue. The Society puts down approximately 3,800 animals per year.
Ms. Lorenzen explained that she is an Ingham County tax payer who is opposed to the sale of animals to Class B Dealers. Ms. Lorenzen was also shocked by the hostility of the Committee this evening. The County should educate the public on responsible pet ownership. They should also be made aware of the Ingham County Animal Control Shelter and the Humane Society.
Ms. Stober stated she understood why two Commissioners warned her that this meeting would be biased. She then urged the Committee to stop the sale of animals to Class B Dealers. Companion animals serve people in many ways. Computers can now be used for dependable research purposes.
Ms. Crites requested information regarding facilities within Ingham County which would take stray, unwanted dogs that would not be sold for research. Ms. Crites expressed her opposition to the County's policy of selling animals to Class B Dealer.
Comm. Grebner explained that Animal Control requires each person to declare if he/she wishes the animal being left at the facility to be sold for research. The decision is left to the people who leave animals at the Shelter. Ms. Crites stated she was not aware of this policy.
Ms. Potter stated she was present at the pet rally on the Courthouse lawn in Mason last night. She understands the need for research. However, she does not believe companion animals should be used for research purposes. The Shelter should hold on to the animals for a longer period of time before selling them to Class B Dealers.
Comm. Schor explained that any rescue organization can place a hold on an animal in the Shelter during the seven-day hold period. If an animal is not adopted, it would be placed with a rescue organization if has been placed on hold. Comm. Schor further stated the Shelter should have a written order completed to place an animal on hold by a rescue agency.
Ms. Strobel provided a list of 475 colleges and universities which do not accept pound seizure or Class B Dealer animals for research. MSU and the U of M should join this list. Chairperson DeLeon asked Ms. Strobel if any of the 475 facilities conduct research similar to that of MSU and the U of M. Ms. Strobel stated she did not have the answer to this question.
Comm. Grebner stated the list of 475 institutions appear to be from particular states. Michigan institutions are not on this list.
Ms. Higbie spoke regarding her difficulties in obtaining County information on its policies and mission statements. She also stated she does not believe this Board will open its hearts to the public's concerns. Ms. Higbie stated Animal Control is in deplorable condition. The County Board should ensure that all of its departments and offices are adhering to County policies and ordinances.
Comm. Schor stated two Commissioners present at the rally last evening encouraged the public to attend tonight's meeting because this Committee was to act on resolutions concerning Animal Control. Tonight's meeting is a well organized Public Hearing. The public was misinformed by two Commissioners regarding the intentions of last night's Board meeting and tonight's Public Hearing.
The Committee paused for a break at approximately 9:00 p.m.
The Committee returned from its break at approximately 9:15
Ms. Winkler informed the Committee that she was present this evening to represent two friends who do not speak English. The people of Ingham County want the County to stop selling animals to Class B Dealers.
Mr. Springborn expressed his hope that this Committee will consider another side of the selling issue. Mr. Springborn spoke regarding the public's concern of the cost Class B Dealers pay for a Shelter animal versus what the public has to pay to adopt the same animal. He recommended the County offer other opportunities for the placement of unwanted animals. Animal research is an outdated method of research today.
Comm. Schor stated the Board has heard concerns that the County charges Class B Dealers too much or not enough for the purchase of an animal for research purposes.
Mr. Higbie, Ingham County resident, stated medical research will always occur. However, if the County changes its policies regarding this issue, we would eliminate ourselves from the practice of animal research.
Ms. Gaymer, MSU Lab Animal Resource Department, urged the County to continue its current practice of selling animals to Class B Dealers who then sell them to research facilities. Less than one percent of research animals are dogs. Ms. Gaymer further stated there are too many unwanted animals. Animals at MSU are cared for during their stay at the facility. She invited everyone to tour the MSU facility. Ms. Gaymer stated computers are not always accurate. Consider weather people who use computers to predict the weather. The National Institute on Health sent Ms. Gaymer an email indicating that they were not opposed to animal research.
In response to Comm. Grebner, Ms. Gaymer stated MSU pays approximately $300 for a conditioned dog and approximately $100 for a non-conditioned dog. MSU students practice surgery on non-conditioned dogs. These dogs are anesthetized during the research process. In response to Comm. Schor, Ms. Gaymer stated veterinarian students do not have to experiment with animals to be certified as a vet. However, she experimented on animals as a student. She is very glad she had the opportunity to do so. The veterinarian school also has blood donor dogs that are not used for research.
Mr. Fleming explained to Comm. Schor that MSU maintains a number of animals as blood donor dogs. Very few animals are suitable to be blood donors. Blood donor dogs are always adopted after their service is completed. They are not sold to Class B Dealers.
Mr. Crosslan, MSU employee, has spent 34 years caring for animals at MSU. MSU students and teachers truly care about the research animals. He also invited the public to tour the MSU research facility. Mr. Crosslan stated he is proud of MSU's efforts to help people. These people do have compassion for the animals.
Comm. Schor asked Mr. Crosslan if he has toured the Ingham County Animal Shelter. Mr. Crosslan stated he toured the facility once many years ago. The facility was very clean at that time. Mr. Fleming stated people should tour the Shelter without providing advance notice.
Ms. Diehl stated the $10 rate which Class B Dealers pay is an insult to the animals. She also explained that if more people spay/neuter their pets, the number of animals in the Shelter would decrease. She further spoke regarding the Shelter's spay/neuter policy.
Comm. Schor agreed with Ms. Diehl's statement regarding the $10 fee. He will recommend this rate be increased to the same rate which is paid by the public to adopt an animal. This concern is being heard. Chairperson Lynch also stated he has spoke with MSU regarding their spay/neuter programs. The Board is addressing this concern.
Ms. Walsh had more questions than statements. She has read Comm. Dedden's proposal regarding this issue and it is very well prepared. Ms. Walsh encouraged the consideration of Comm. Dedden's proposals. Mr. Heaven should have been an invited speaker tonight. Ms. Walsh expressed her willingness to set up a coalition with the Capital Area Humane Society and the rescue groups to end the sale of animals to Class B Dealers.
Ms. Walsh also stated Animal Control tells rescue groups they are not needed when they call the Shelter. Mr. Fleming stated Ms. Walsh is from the Ionia Humane Society. The Shelter has done a number of inter-shelter transfers. He also recalled her telephone call when she was told her services were not needed. Mr. Fleming explained that he told Ms. Walsh that the Shelter numbers were done. However, if she needed cats, she should let him know.
Chairperson Lynch stated the County investigates every specific complaint against Animal Control.
Mr. Friedlis asked the County to discontinue the sale of animals to Class B Dealers. Residents should be encouraged to take stray dogs to Animal Control. However, people do not want to place strays with Animal Control because of the research issue. Mr. Friedlis understands there are too many animals. Left over animals should be euthanized, not sold for research.
Ms. Friedlis, 20 year resident of Ingham County, is a concerned and involved citizen. Under the current management, the Animal Control facility is not a welcome place to visit. The facility should have educational programs regarding the care of animals. She questioned what the facility was doing to advertise its animals.
In response to Ms. Friedlis, Chairperson Lynch stated the facility animals are pictured on www.petfinder on the internet. Chairperson DeLeon also explained this County spends more money per capita that any other comparable county for animal control and shelter services. The mission of Animal Control is to protect the citizens from dangerous animals. The operation of the Animal Control Shelter is discretionary. The public should understand there is a chance that revenue sharing will be much less this year. If so, some important decisions regarding County services will have to be made by the Board.
Mr. Winkler asked from a moral standpoint that the County not continue its practice of selling animals to Class B Dealers. Alternatives to this practice should be developed.
Ms. Grennas stated she takes in stray and abused cats. She rehabilitates the cats. Homes should be found for stray animals. Rescue organizations are more than willing to take unwanted animals. Research can be done without using pets.
Ms. Cooper stated she has had a good working relationship with Mr. Fleming. Mr. Fleming needs a dedicated staff in the Shelter. The Director also should come out of his office to see what is going on in the Shelter and to hear resident complaints.
Ms. Sorek stated the people present this evening are tax-paying citizens. She questioned how the County residents benefit from the sale of animals to Class B Dealers. Why should research be a concern of the Board of Commissioners. Over-population is the problem to be addressed by the Board, not research.
Comm. Schor stated, that from his perspective, the public is asking the same questions of this Committee. The County's decision to sell animals for research makes a statement that we believe there is a benefit from this research to the people. People should understand this answer.
Ms. Hudson, Ingham County resident, encouraged the County to continue to sell unwanted animals for research purposes. She agrees this research does benefit humanity and animals. Most of the public tonight has an "anti-research" agenda. Ms. Hudson commended the people who addressed the spay/neuter issue. This is the answer to over-population. Ms. Hudson thanked the County for their policy because she has medically benefitted from animal research. MSU has the only veterinary school in the State.
Ms. Sernaglu stated this Public Hearing is about what the County residents want from the Board regarding the unwanted animals. She encouraged the Board to do what is right.
Comm. Schor stated if his constituents overwhelmingly believe that selling animals for research is wrong, he will support that position. He will speak with his constituents this summer regarding this issue. Commissioners should do what their constituents want.
Ms. Dimeria stated tonight's issue concerns the selling of animals for research. Dealers have plenty of animals to use for research. Alternatives to animal research are available. Tonight's speakers appear to be one-sided.
Ms. Farley expressed her concerns regarding Mr. Fleming's management of the Animal Control Department. She also expected the Committee to take some action tonight to address the concerns of the residents. Ms. Farley also spoke regarding the Kingston issue.
In response to Ms. Farley, Comm. Schor stated he has had two, 45-minute conversations with Ms. Farley regarding Kingston. Kingston was available at the Shelter for the required seven days. A hold was not placed on Kingston by any rescue organization during this time period. Animal Control cannot be blamed because a rescue organization did not rescue Kingston.
Comm. Grebner informed the public that he proposed an Animal Control subcommittee a month ago. This subcommittee would exhaustively review Animal Control's policies and procedures. He will formally propose the subcommittee at tomorrow night's Law Enforcement meeting. The subcommittee would change the paperwork system and clarify specific issues for the public. The County policy would be clarified and a clear day-to-day status of each animal in the facility will be available. Comm. Grebner further explained that the subcommittee would meet once a week to discuss Shelter policies.
Comm. Stid stated she made her position on the research issue clear two or three years ago during this same process. Her parents will donate their bodies to MSU for research upon their deaths. Comm. Stid also informed the public that at least 400 animals have been dumped in her yard over the years. Approximately 380 of these animals were cats. Some of the animals in Animal Control are not someone's beloved pets. They did not come from loving homes. Animals used for research are anesthetized and then euthanized upon completion of the research. Comm. Stid further stated she is a cancer survivor.
Comm. Stid stated the Board is addressing the public's concerns in an organized process. This process should not be disrupted.
Comm. Schor stated he agrees that the Capital Area Humane Society should have been a scheduled item on tonight's agenda. This Public Hearing was called to order approximately 3 hours ago. Approximately 45 minutes of the three hours were pro-research. The remaining time has been anti-research. Tonight's agenda was not one-sided. The Committee has given more than enough time to each side of this issue. Comm. Schor further stated he looks forward to speaking with his constituents regarding this matter.
Chairperson DeLeon spoke regarding her perspective on animal research. Her family is plagued by diabetes. There is passion on both sides of the research issue. Respect and time will be needed to find a compromise for both sides. It is the Board's responsibility to find a balance. She looks forward to this process.
The Public Hearing adjourned at 10:54 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Debra Neff